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It seems as new paid apps are never shown, getting bad ranking and therefore no/very low downloads.
I believe the only way to make a decent amount of money off the App Store is to invest into marketing, and a lot of it. The problem is that buying ads and what-not is really only profitable for big names like EA - us individual developers cannot afford it.
Of course, there is (and always will be) a large market for mobile Applications - however, at the rate the iOS App Store is going right now, it seems like spending time, resources, and money into an App is a waste for us.
I have tried the free-premium scheme, and the conversation was over 1:100 - terrible rate, not even worth wasting my servers resources to serve content to the 99+ people out of 100 that didn't download my premium version.
It's been over a month since I've touched the App Store - honestly. My Apps are now doing terrible, I'm out of ideas, and ideas I do have I'm nearly sure won't get anywhere but the third page of search results. It's depressing - really.
Share your thoughts and opinions here. I'd love to hear them.
It's the same thing for any industry really. Think of all the people trying to get their screenplays noticed, or trying to be chefs, or whatever. A few will make it big. Some will make a decent living and most will fail. The difference is with apps you can innovate and get noticed. Churning out average apps isn't worth it. Doing something new and noteworthy (pun intended!) certainly is. Additionally, nowadays I think it is easier to make money off apps that building say, a website. Much more competition and less returns there to be sure.
We're a month away from the biggest 'upset' to our businesses since we started... the complete revamp of the app store on the device. I think it's best to see what the effect of that is before deciding to quit. Perhaps more of us will join you!
Are you Colton Grubbs on the app store? If so, I would say you have a lot more to improve as well.. Don't give up. You seem to focus your apps primary on "jokes". Perhaps it is time to venture into a different demographic audience or something.. Something different..
We're a month away from the biggest 'upset' to our businesses since we started... the complete revamp of the app store on the device. I think it's best to see what the effect of that is before deciding to quit. Perhaps more of us will join you!
We're a month away from the biggest 'upset' to our businesses since we started... the complete revamp of the app store on the device. I think it's best to see what the effect of that is before deciding to quit. Perhaps more of us will join you!
what's that? did i miss an anouncement?
I assume he means the new iPhone that is being released next month, and given the amount of leaks thats being released then I think he saying that he is disappointed in the design of it (which seems to be the same design as 4s but longer.._
I give a decent game out for free, and I got like 1000 downloads. it's like people are not even bothering to try, or people are just not aware of it because the app-store instead being the so called idealistic thing it started to be and promote worth to look new apps, it makes sure nobody knows about them. I can't even imagine paid apps.
an interesting statistic is that the first version of my game, that is now rotting somewhere in the abyss of the appstore not ranking anywhere still gets 1or2 downloads per day I assume due to word of mouth. So the limited exposure of the first two days of the release that the game had provided this effect. (I know that without marketing a time will come that eventually nobody will download it ever again.) currently I am too busy to bother do any promotion. Maybe next month when I will have more time, I will work on an update, add 30 more levels (currently have 70), and try promoting it this time, send it to places for reviews and such.. (i didn't do any of those things.)
If that doesn't pay off again then I am done.
best case scenario I will just release stuff part time for free every now and then.. (If I fancy keep paying the dev-licence)
anybody knows if your apps get deleted if you don't renew that thing?
I assume he means the new iPhone that is being released next month
You assume wrong (I mean that in a friendly way).
It's about iOS6 App Store app. iOS6 redesigns the UI of the App Store app where 9x% of people discover and download apps. Finding apps through "Categories" will become meaningless. The focus points for discovery become what Apple decides to feature, Overall Top Charts, Genius, Search, and Developer marketing campaigns. The Categories feature is buried so deep that category top charts will become irrelevant.
It's about iOS6 App Store app. iOS6 redesigns the UI of the App Store app where 9x% of people discover and download apps. Finding apps through "Categories" will become meaningless. The focus points for discovery become what Apple decides to feature, Overall Top Charts, Genius, Search, and Developer marketing campaigns. The Categories feature is buried so deep that category top charts will become irrelevant.
Yes, I don't know what the affect will be, but surely there will be one. Categories charts are there but not where they were, and perhaps 'genius' will help some people sell more. I think it will be a disaster for some and a help for others, until it's out there I don't think anyone knows what impact it will have. If you think the recent search changes have made a difference to you, hold on to your hats.
Yes, I don't know what the affect will be, but surely there will be one. Categories charts are there but not where they were, and perhaps 'genius' will help some people sell more. I think it will be a disaster for some and a help for others, until it's out there I don't think anyone knows what impact it will have. If you think the recent search changes have made a difference to you, hold on to your hats.
The changes will be good. They will be good for the users and good for developers who make great apps and focus on creating a great brand.
The app store has matured and there are lots of awesome developers who have marketing budgets so Apple is not worried about developers not being able to market their apps.
The apps that are great and original will a. get featured by apple b. or be published or marketed by a publisher that has a budget c. or picked up and reviewed by various review sites assuming the developer knows how to market. This will help the app move up in search.
If you're looking for doodle jump or angry birds do you seriously say to yourself "Hey, I gotta browse the puzzle game category or whatever". You'll most likely search for Angry birds or stumble on it in the top charts or hear from someone via word of mouth. Same thing with most of the apps people care about who deserve their success and don't rely on some funky glitch from search results. From our experience, for an app that is well searched and has good word of mouth behind it, the category rankings are only responsible for 10-20% of the traffic. That's peanuts in the grand scheme of things. I am certain Apple thinks the same thing and their data supports this, which is why the saw fit to demote "Category" placement, and use "Genius" instead. It'll ultimately provide the right incentives supported by their research and data (not something they pulled out of their ass which I think the fart app and wallpaper app makers on this forum assume they do)
I think the people who are going to be "hurt" by this because apple is messing with their "livelihood" should take a good look at themselves and the type of apps they make. You don't have a right to be successful. You need to earn it and keep earning it like every other business on this planet.
Higher the quality of your app more downloads it will get. There is no other way. All the approaches to marketing rest on the notion that Your App is High Quality (and perhaps remarkable). I am struggling to make high quality apps myself, mainly because it takes 100 times more effort than low quality app and there is always this impulse to submit it to the App Store and see if its even worth the months of effort.
There is a lot of money to be made in the app store but I believe its really hard for one-person teams to make a dent. Four Person team will do perhaps 1000 times better than 1 Person. I am thinking of forming a 4 member team to churn out high quality apps. Two Developers + two Designers with 25% equity each would be the best. Since the App Store Market is based on Power Law (top 1% make 90% of the revenue), it makes sense to develop hight quality apps at faster and faster rate. So instead of taking home 100% of $50 dollars this month, you stand a chance to take 25% of $10,000. :)
These past few months have been horrible for me on iOS and Android. Sales on both platforms have cut in half. It's becoming incredibly hard to make ends meet. Of course, the alternative is to get a "real" job. I've supported myself with app development for 3 years, so I'm going to try my hardest to tough it out and keep my status as being my own boss. It is horribly depressing when you spend two to four months on a project and it bombs though. It's hard not to think how much money you would have made a day job in that amount of time. I guess it all boils down to whether or not you believe in yourself enough to keep making sacrifices. So far, I still do. If you ever get to the point that you don't, I think it's best to at least take some time away from apps and pursue other income.
I do think it's much tougher to start from scratch now. You've got to find a niche that is undercapitalized, but those niches are becoming harder and harder to find. Don't think about building apps, think about building a business. Apps are easy, a sustainable business is challenging.
For those who are not already doing well now or are about to enter the app business it's going to get worse before it gets better. I don't see any dramatic changes happening to the app store with the new iphone or ios6. Apple does not change things for the benefit for anyone beside itself, and since ios devices sales numbers are still growing there is no incentive for change. IOS 6 and the upcoming new iphone will make this even more apparent. This may sound a bit on the pessimistic side for app developers who have hard time getting noticed but it wouldn't be bad to be realistic and start to think about new ways to sustain your income in a post-app-store-area.
time to move to android then? I noticed there are some really nice apps in apple store which are not on android. What do you guys think? I hear a lot of people saying android users dont want to spend any money on apps. Is it that they dont want to spend money or is it that they dont want to spend money on games or other similar types of apps? I guess researching about android users might give us clue to what they are willing to pay for. are they mostly business people? students? older people?
I've been porting my most popular app to android for the past month or so, it may take me 2 or 3 more months to complete though (newbie to the SDK / dev approach, and it's my first app since properly learning java - I'm also working towards a OCJP -)
It's like anything in life - you have to offer something different to get noticed. It's a tough world out there and you have to believe that your product(s) are worth the time and energy you invest in them. If you develop a truly worthy app then I'm sure you'll eventually reap the rewards in some way or another.
I have an idea for an app which I know will take a good year to develop, but it's not putting me off. But then I won't rely on it as a source of income, and the knowledge & skills I will learn through doing it will be worth it. If anything, I will use the app as another marketing tool to showcase my design/development company. Anything extra will be a bonus.
If you're in a situation where you are getting the same (disappointing) results every time, then it's obviously time to change your approach, and it's up to you to figure out what isn't working.
From our experience, for an app that is well searched and has good word of mouth behind it, the category rankings are only responsible for 10-20% of the traffic.
....
You don't have a right to be successful. You need to earn it and keep earning it like every other business on this planet.
There has been some debate as to how much of an impact category ranking has on sales.. does ranking drive sales or are sales reflected by the ranking? Probably both... but soon we shall see what difference the lower visibility of the category ranking makes.
Don't 'count your chickens before they've hatched' PlutoPrime, you can be humbled by the app store just as much as anyone else! You tell us we don't have a right to be successful, neither do you! We will all soon see which side of that fence the new app store puts us... All of us. No-one can be complacent about this. Well maybe angry birds.
If you combine Google Play, the Android Appstore, and whatever B&N calls Nook's app marketplace, I make more on Android than I do on iOS. Historically, my games have always sold better on WebOS than iOS and Android combined.Of course I haven't released a WebOS product since before the death of the OS was announced. But the point is that if you rely on just one platform you are in trouble.
It's definitely harder now, and yes, one year ago, it was really easier for a new app to sell. I noticed the big drop just after my last release, 100% of satisfied customers for a quality app is not enough to get you a rank... and updates won't make a difference. So what are we suppose to do... I'm asking you. It's selling more on Android, well... that's new !
Don't your chickens before they've hatched' PlutoPrime, you can be humbled by the app store just as much as anyone else!
I was preaching that to you, myself and everyone else who is running a business. Let me repeat that. No one has a right to success. You have to earn it every single day. It requires skill, luck, talent, motivation, etc etc. I never claimed to be successful and I never claimed I'm an exception to any rule. So re-evaluate your assumptions before blowing my quotes out of context. I am just as nervous as the next guy about the upcoming ios6 changes.
I'm just discouraged by some of the posts on this forum whining how Apple doesn't care about them because their life-altering and app-store GEM, "Stinky Fart App", no longer appears as the #1 search result for the term "gas". I can't sympathize with someone like that. I CAN sympathize with someone who created a company called "Planetonica" with lots of wonderful and popular apps, and when you search for "Planetonica" their apps don't appear anywhere on the search results. Does that clarify things a bit?
As I said many times. Apple is encouraging developers NOT to create quality apps.
As it is now it is simple as that.
it doesn't matter if you are 1 or a 5 people company. You would be better if you just flooded the app-store with silly apps like i-spin toilet paper .. or smthng.
You are safer if your business plan is : create a "framework" with all the inclusions of . and you just flood the app store with silly ideas.
in fact you don't even have to bother include those things any more. it's too much fuss/ you do it later.
Yes as it is now it's a better business model to spam the app-store with ridiculously harshly made apps filled with ads in-app purchases etc and only focus on a cool icon, or a "funny" - "ridiculous" concept. that will drive peoples curiosity and click on it just to show to their class mates how stupid this app is.. ..but hey who cares. if a lot of people fall into the trap YOU WILL REACH THE TOP FREE RANK in some category and then NO MATTER HOW SHITTY reviews you get. ...it's ok because your app is visible and you keep making money.
and if you "fail"? big deal you just spend a few more days to make a new one an even more idiotic project!
AND I DON'T accuse the the guys who make this kind of things. it's just how things are and I am just calling it for what it is. People just adopt to the situation.
if you are an idiot working on projects that demand months of work. and you don't have a promotional budget. or time to do that. guess what?? Your app is going to get the exact initial exposure as the spam that was created in a few days. spam apps flood the app store EVERY DAY thus limiting your chances to get noticed by anybody. by the time you've blinked your eyes you will be covered by i-toilet paper apps or the updates of crazy angry zombie something.
50% of the apps in there are ****, or web pages turned into apps.. and if that doesn't matter you either do what apple encourages you to do or just move on with your life.
I know a guy who has made THOUSANDS of £$ just by going to companies and translate their webpages into apps.
he doesn't even know how to code. I helped him create a sample app and then he went on by tweaking the initial project..
it's just how it is. It's the nature of the beast.
I am just saying that programming shouldn't be like that.
There should be at least a separation, fastfood apps should have their own spot in the app store. or even better Apps that are of better quality should have a different spot, maybe even a different appstore.?
That way developers would try get accepted to the quality shop instead.
or at least separate the web-page apps for god sake..
As it is now it's like having a restaurant where you allow people **** and piss where other people try to eat. guess what .. in a few days everybody will just use the place as a toilet to **** and piss only.
and nobody can blame them for not trying to eat there.
The gold rush of 2008-2009 is over. The iOS App Store is a fiercely Fiercely FIERCELY competitive marketplace. There's 700+ new apps submitted per day. PER DAY. (source: mobilenapps.com) There's no other market out there that's as competitive as the app store.
You've got to have a seriously high quality product and/or the war chest to back it up in terms of marketing, PR and user acquisition. Indie development is not for the faint of heart or the weak willed. It's brutal and requires you to out manoeuvre and execute well established companies with the resources and experience.
So to answer the original question, I could not in good faith recommend app development as a serious career or start-up path to someone right now with the way things they are. If you can accept the risk and sacrifices involved and feel you have the work ethic and talent to do it, then go for it because we do need good apps out there.
I just wanted to point out: you may have the highest quality App available on the App Store, but unless you market it correctly, you will fail. It seems as making money from "Organic Traffic" is over as well. You need to target a group with a niche product, and target them in a way to make good money in order to hit it big in the App Store (top-100 like).
There's no other market out there that's as competitive as the app store.
Try the Web Hosting or Server market. So saturated, anyone can start their own for $20.
There's no other market out there that's as competitive as the app store.
Try the Web Hosting or Server market. So saturated, anyone can start their own for $20.
Or writing stories for sale on the Kindle store, or making music for sale on iTunes, there are plenty of markets that are just as saturated as the app store. Releasing a desktop product with no help from an app store at all has certainly made me appreciate how easy it still is to get at least a daily trickle of sales from the app store. It might not be easy, but It's certainly not the worst way to bring a product to market.
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0 · Off Topic Insightful 1Disagree Dislike Like Awesomean interesting statistic is that the first version of my game, that is now rotting somewhere in the abyss of the appstore not ranking anywhere still gets 1or2 downloads per day I assume due to word of mouth. So the limited exposure of the first two days of the release that the game had provided this effect. (I know that without marketing a time will come that eventually nobody will download it ever again.) currently I am too busy to bother do any promotion. Maybe next month when I will have more time, I will work on an update, add 30 more levels (currently have 70), and try promoting it this time, send it to places for reviews and such.. (i didn't do any of those things.)
If that doesn't pay off again then I am done.
best case scenario I will just release stuff part time for free every now and then.. (If I fancy keep paying the dev-licence)
anybody knows if your apps get deleted if you don't renew that thing?
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0 · Off Topic Insightful Disagree Dislike Like AwesomeYou assume wrong (I mean that in a friendly way).
It's about iOS6 App Store app. iOS6 redesigns the UI of the App Store app where 9x% of people discover and download apps. Finding apps through "Categories" will become meaningless. The focus points for discovery become what Apple decides to feature, Overall Top Charts, Genius, Search, and Developer marketing campaigns. The Categories feature is buried so deep that category top charts will become irrelevant.
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0 · Off Topic Insightful Disagree Dislike Like AwesomeThe app store has matured and there are lots of awesome developers who have marketing budgets so Apple is not worried about developers not being able to market their apps.
The apps that are great and original will a. get featured by apple b. or be published or marketed by a publisher that has a budget c. or picked up and reviewed by various review sites assuming the developer knows how to market. This will help the app move up in search.
If you're looking for doodle jump or angry birds do you seriously say to yourself "Hey, I gotta browse the puzzle game category or whatever". You'll most likely search for Angry birds or stumble on it in the top charts or hear from someone via word of mouth. Same thing with most of the apps people care about who deserve their success and don't rely on some funky glitch from search results. From our experience, for an app that is well searched and has good word of mouth behind it, the category rankings are only responsible for 10-20% of the traffic. That's peanuts in the grand scheme of things. I am certain Apple thinks the same thing and their data supports this, which is why the saw fit to demote "Category" placement, and use "Genius" instead. It'll ultimately provide the right incentives supported by their research and data (not something they pulled out of their ass which I think the fart app and wallpaper app makers on this forum assume they do)
I think the people who are going to be "hurt" by this because apple is messing with their "livelihood" should take a good look at themselves and the type of apps they make. You don't have a right to be successful. You need to earn it and keep earning it like every other business on this planet.
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1 · Off Topic Insightful Disagree Dislike 1Like AwesomeThere is a lot of money to be made in the app store but I believe its really hard for one-person teams to make a dent. Four Person team will do perhaps 1000 times better than 1 Person. I am thinking of forming a 4 member team to churn out high quality apps.
Two Developers + two Designers with 25% equity each would be the best. Since the App Store Market is based on Power Law (top 1% make 90% of the revenue), it makes sense to develop hight quality apps at faster and faster rate. So instead of taking home 100% of $50 dollars this month, you stand a chance to take 25% of $10,000. :)
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0 · Off Topic Insightful Disagree Dislike Like AwesomeI guess it all boils down to whether or not you believe in yourself enough to keep making sacrifices. So far, I still do. If you ever get to the point that you don't, I think it's best to at least take some time away from apps and pursue other income.
CatHide: A new cross-platform development solution. 6 platforms. 1 click. Download the beta trial now and pre-order the release version for only $29.99
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0 · Off Topic Insightful Disagree Dislike Like AwesomeFantasy Monster - Mobile Fantasy Domination
Follow me on twitter @bignoggins
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0 · Off Topic Insightful Disagree Dislike Like AwesomeThis may sound a bit on the pessimistic side for app developers who have hard time getting noticed but it wouldn't be bad to be realistic and start to think about new ways to sustain your income in a post-app-store-area.
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1 · Off Topic Insightful Disagree Dislike Like 1AwesomeIt's like anything in life - you have to offer something different to get noticed. It's a tough world out there and you have to believe that your product(s) are worth the time and energy you invest in them. If you develop a truly worthy app then I'm sure you'll eventually reap the rewards in some way or another.
I have an idea for an app which I know will take a good year to develop, but it's not putting me off. But then I won't rely on it as a source of income, and the knowledge & skills I will learn through doing it will be worth it. If anything, I will use the app as another marketing tool to showcase my design/development company. Anything extra will be a bonus.
If you're in a situation where you are getting the same (disappointing) results every time, then it's obviously time to change your approach, and it's up to you to figure out what isn't working.
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0 · Off Topic Insightful Disagree Dislike Like AwesomeDon't 'count your chickens before they've hatched' PlutoPrime, you can be humbled by the app store just as much as anyone else! You tell us we don't have a right to be successful, neither do you! We will all soon see which side of that fence the new app store puts us... All of us. No-one can be complacent about this. Well maybe angry birds.
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0 · Off Topic Insightful Disagree Dislike Like AwesomeCatHide: A new cross-platform development solution. 6 platforms. 1 click. Download the beta trial now and pre-order the release version for only $29.99
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0 · Off Topic Insightful Disagree Dislike Like AwesomeI noticed the big drop just after my last release, 100% of satisfied customers for a quality app is not enough to get you a rank... and updates won't make a difference.
So what are we suppose to do... I'm asking you.
It's selling more on Android, well... that's new !
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0 · Off Topic Insightful Disagree Dislike Like AwesomeI'm just discouraged by some of the posts on this forum whining how Apple doesn't care about them because their life-altering and app-store GEM, "Stinky Fart App", no longer appears as the #1 search result for the term "gas". I can't sympathize with someone like that. I CAN sympathize with someone who created a company called "Planetonica" with lots of wonderful and popular apps, and when you search for "Planetonica" their apps don't appear anywhere on the search results. Does that clarify things a bit?
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0 · Off Topic Insightful Disagree Dislike Like AwesomeAs it is now it is simple as that.
it doesn't matter if you are 1 or a 5 people company. You would be better if you just flooded the app-store with silly apps like i-spin toilet paper .. or smthng.
You are safer if your business plan is : create a "framework" with all the inclusions of . and you just flood the app store with silly ideas.
in fact you don't even have to bother include those things any more. it's too much fuss/ you do it later.
Yes as it is now it's a better business model to spam the app-store with ridiculously harshly made apps filled with ads in-app purchases etc and only focus on a cool icon, or a "funny" - "ridiculous" concept. that will drive peoples curiosity and click on it just to show to their class mates how stupid this app is.. ..but hey who cares. if a lot of people fall into the trap YOU WILL REACH THE TOP FREE RANK in some category and then NO MATTER HOW SHITTY reviews you get. ...it's ok because your app is visible and you keep making money.
and if you "fail"? big deal you just spend a few more days to make a new one an even more idiotic project!
AND I DON'T accuse the the guys who make this kind of things. it's just how things are and I am just calling it for what it is. People just adopt to the situation.
if you are an idiot working on projects that demand months of work. and you don't have a promotional budget. or time to do that. guess what?? Your app is going to get the exact initial exposure as the spam that was created in a few days.
spam apps flood the app store EVERY DAY thus limiting your chances to get noticed by anybody. by the time you've blinked your eyes you will be covered by i-toilet paper apps or the updates of crazy angry zombie something.
50% of the apps in there are ****, or web pages turned into apps.. and if that doesn't matter you either do what apple encourages you to do or just move on with your life.
I know a guy who has made THOUSANDS of £$ just by going to companies and translate their webpages into apps.
he doesn't even know how to code. I helped him create a sample app and then he went on by tweaking the initial project..
it's just how it is. It's the nature of the beast.
I am just saying that programming shouldn't be like that.
There should be at least a separation, fastfood apps should have their own spot in the app store.
or even better Apps that are of better quality should have a different spot, maybe even a different appstore.?
That way developers would try get accepted to the quality shop instead.
or at least separate the web-page apps for god sake..
As it is now it's like having a restaurant where you allow people **** and piss where other people try to eat.
guess what .. in a few days everybody will just use the place as a toilet to **** and piss only.
and nobody can blame them for not trying to eat there.
Sorry for the graphic language.
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0 · Off Topic Insightful Disagree Dislike Like AwesomeYou've got to have a seriously high quality product and/or the war chest to back it up in terms of marketing, PR and user acquisition. Indie development is not for the faint of heart or the weak willed. It's brutal and requires you to out manoeuvre and execute well established companies with the resources and experience.
So to answer the original question, I could not in good faith recommend app development as a serious career or start-up path to someone right now with the way things they are. If you can accept the risk and sacrifices involved and feel you have the work ethic and talent to do it, then go for it because we do need good apps out there.
DP
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0 · Off Topic Insightful Disagree Dislike Like AwesomeCatHide: A new cross-platform development solution. 6 platforms. 1 click. Download the beta trial now and pre-order the release version for only $29.99
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0 · Off Topic Insightful Disagree Dislike Like Awesome