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Indie Success (Discussion)

2

Replies

  • iosandwiniosandwin MumbaiPosts: 374New Users @ @
    @Enaxa try Automatically Optimize Bid Request for better results
  • BulkheadBulkhead MassPosts: 12New Users *
    Facebook is full of bot accounts itself, advertising on there is a pretty big ripoff imo
  • notnaknotnak GermanyPosts: 20New Users *
    edited June 2014
    I mean... really?! This reminds me of the good old Black Hat SEO days.

    Of course there are tricks!

    Of course people will not reveal them, unless they are not effective anymore and the only way to profit from them is to publish some ebook/article.

    Of course people who know them would come here saying there are no tricks so that you give up trying to find them.

    You have to understand these people need to protect their investments. Some have found the tricks themselves and are finally making money, but many have paid $5k and more to enter a mastermind group and learn them.

    Also, most of the "tricks" need some initial founding.

    There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. This is not stackoverflow.










  • RaffaelloRaffaello Posts: 214Registered Users @ @
    marktwo wrote: »
    Flappy Bird had thousands of fake generated reviews. That's what I remembered when I looked at it for the first time. Whoever says their success was genuine, is full of it.

    Just look up the Flappy Bird story, there was nothing fishy about Flappy Bird. Did you even know who Pewdiepie is?
    Basically the biggest youtube star ever, and he did make a video mocking Flappy Bird.
    That's how it got millions of downloads in a few days, this guy has millions of followers and he just by chance he found the game and made a video about it.
    Minimon 3D - MMO for mobile - minimon3d.com/
  • dev666999dev666999 Posts: 3,567New Users @ @ @ @ @
    Raffaello wrote: »
    marktwo wrote: »
    Flappy Bird had thousands of fake generated reviews. That's what I remembered when I looked at it for the first time. Whoever says their success was genuine, is full of it.

    Just look up the Flappy Bird story, there was nothing fishy about Flappy Bird. Did you even know who Pewdiepie is?
    Basically the biggest youtube star ever, and he did make a video mocking Flappy Bird.
    That's how it got millions of downloads in a few days, this guy has millions of followers and he just by chance he found the game and made a video about it.

    Not only Pewdiepie, but Lonnydos too. He's another Youtube game "reviewer" star.

  • haupmanhaupman Posts: 14New Users *
    I don't think there was anything nefarious about how Flappy Bird got to the top. There are literally 1 million apps out there and 1 or 2 of them hitting the "App Lottery" is definitely in the realm of possibilities.
  • TheMixer1TheMixer1 Posts: 55New Users @
    I'm looking at many of the top grossing apps. Their reviews are all the same length, the same wording and obtained en masse in unrealistic time frames (ie 5000 written reviews in 4 days). Flappy was the same.
  • PikPokPikPok Posts: 370New Users @ @
    haupman wrote: »
    I don't think there was anything nefarious about how Flappy Bird got to the top. There are literally 1 million apps out there and 1 or 2 of them hitting the "App Lottery" is definitely in the realm of possibilities.

    Well, except he had multiple apps hit the "app lottery" at exactly the same time without any ingame cross promotion.
    <div align="center"><a href="http://www.pikpok.com"; target="_blank">PikPok</a> - steal a moment! </div><br />
    Games: <a href="http://pikpok.com/games/supermamc/"; target="_blank">Super Monsters Ate My Condo</a> | <a href="http://pikpok.com/games/intothedead/"; target="_blank">Into the Dead</a> | <a href="http://pikpok.com/games/football/"; target="_blank">Flick Kick Football</a>
  • dev666999dev666999 Posts: 3,567New Users @ @ @ @ @
    edited July 2014
    So @PikPok... you're obviously smart and know the ins and outs of the iTunes App Store.

    In your opinion, how did that Vietnamese developer manage to get so many LONG reviews in so little time? Mine is a serious question... as are others who have posted it. People just don't leave long reviews like that, especially with the crappy keyboards that most mobile devices have. It would be far too much work. Like others, I suspect he did it illegally... but how? And if so, why hasn't Apple cracked down on that?

    Any ideas?
  • PikPokPikPok Posts: 370New Users @ @
    Bots used to surface the app(s) on the charts, after which Flappy Bird went "legitimately" viral.

    Why didn't Apple crack down? Well, the game was removed from the store...
    <div align="center"><a href="http://www.pikpok.com"; target="_blank">PikPok</a> - steal a moment! </div><br />
    Games: <a href="http://pikpok.com/games/supermamc/"; target="_blank">Super Monsters Ate My Condo</a> | <a href="http://pikpok.com/games/intothedead/"; target="_blank">Into the Dead</a> | <a href="http://pikpok.com/games/football/"; target="_blank">Flick Kick Football</a>
  • dev666999dev666999 Posts: 3,567New Users @ @ @ @ @
    PikPok wrote: »
    Bots used to surface the app(s) on the charts, after which Flappy Bird went "legitimately" viral.

    Why didn't Apple crack down? Well, the game was removed from the store...

    That's pretty much what I thought too, but most developers on this board equate bots with UFOs.

    As for the game being removed from the board... the developer probably got hit with a trademark suit by the makers of Mario Bros. He used some of their IP to create Flappy Bird. Don't think Apple would have removed it if not for that. He removed it "voluntarily".
  • PikPokPikPok Posts: 370New Users @ @
    dev666999 wrote: »
    PikPok wrote: »
    Bots used to surface the app(s) on the charts, after which Flappy Bird went "legitimately" viral.

    Why didn't Apple crack down? Well, the game was removed from the store...

    That's pretty much what I thought too, but most developers on this board equate bots with UFOs.

    As for the game being removed from the board... the developer probably got hit with a trademark suit by the makers of Mario Bros. He used some of their IP to create Flappy Bird. Don't think Apple would have removed it if not for that. He removed it "voluntarily".

    I believe it has been shown he didn't actually copy the assets from Super Mario, so I'm not sure that was the catalyst.

    But I believe "voluntarily" (in quotes) is the case. I doubt "willingly".

    <div align="center"><a href="http://www.pikpok.com"; target="_blank">PikPok</a> - steal a moment! </div><br />
    Games: <a href="http://pikpok.com/games/supermamc/"; target="_blank">Super Monsters Ate My Condo</a> | <a href="http://pikpok.com/games/intothedead/"; target="_blank">Into the Dead</a> | <a href="http://pikpok.com/games/football/"; target="_blank">Flick Kick Football</a>
  • RaffaelloRaffaello Posts: 214Registered Users @ @
    PipPok, you seem to continue to insist that Flappy Bird had some kind of illegal tricks for his sucess etc, and again I say, you just don't know the whole story about it.

    Now you talk about his huge number of reviews, but did you know that once Flappy Bird got somehow visibility, there was a huge gag in two big forums (forums with millions of daily users), where people were trying to make the most comical Flappy Bird review?
    Those threads would get huge, with a very big number of people posting reviews on the store.

    And he did not have success on his other titles, besides people checking them out once Flappy Bird got huge, as you know, the app store does have a link that shows all apps from the developer.

    The idea that a poor guy from Vietnam would be able to cheat the app store is simply non-sense. To get the numbers necessary to get such exposure, in terms of starting downloads, reviews etc would require thousands of thousands dollars, do you really think this guy would have that kind of money?
    Minimon 3D - MMO for mobile - minimon3d.com/
  • PikPokPikPok Posts: 370New Users @ @
    Believe what you will. But it didn't play out like you describe.
    <div align="center"><a href="http://www.pikpok.com"; target="_blank">PikPok</a> - steal a moment! </div><br />
    Games: <a href="http://pikpok.com/games/supermamc/"; target="_blank">Super Monsters Ate My Condo</a> | <a href="http://pikpok.com/games/intothedead/"; target="_blank">Into the Dead</a> | <a href="http://pikpok.com/games/football/"; target="_blank">Flick Kick Football</a>
  • dev666999dev666999 Posts: 3,567New Users @ @ @ @ @
    @Raffaello‌

    When I first heard of Flappy Bird and did the research as to why it went viral, I thought it was a meme that had gotten out of control. But then looking at the logic of it, I suspected like @PikPok that it was bots that drove both the downloads and the reviews.

    Nobody runs home to use their computer to leave a super long review... especially when a lot of them are pure gibberish. That iPhone keyboard is too klutzy for long detailed reviews... and most users, too *&^% lazy to leave them. And the sheer numbers that showed up so quickly, also makes it all suspect.

    Your take, if true, is a long shot... but I suspect that he did something illegal. It makes far more sense.
  • RudyRudy Ottawa, CanadaPosts: 1,787Registered Users @ @ @ @
    Add me to the list. No way he got where he was without cheating

  • RaffaelloRaffaello Posts: 214Registered Users @ @
    dev666999, like I said, a large chunk of reviews come from two very very big forums that have millions of daily users (4chan and reddit). Those people posted the reviews using their computer of course, not their phones.
    I watched those threads myself, all people wanted to be funny and make the most stupid review possible, they would post it then post a screenshot in the thread.

    Again I ask you, where would this developer have thousands to pay for bots?
    Or do you really think this is something that can be bone (if possible at all) with just a mere 100$?
    This guy was not a company, and he was making really simple games, I really doubt he had any kind of money.
    If he really was loaded with money to spend on bots, why wouldnt him instead spend money on making good apps?

    You guys never seen a viral video on Youtube?
    The concept is the same, by sheer luck something takes off and then grows exponentially, with no money behind it.
    The viral explosion happened because people were making fun of it online (the big youtuber that started most of it also did the same, mock the game).
    This is what we all want to happen with our apps, this guy just got lucky.

    And Flappy Bird was not that bad, for what it is, a simple mobile game, it was quite polished and functional. I've seen much worse things on the tops...
    Minimon 3D - MMO for mobile - minimon3d.com/
  • dev666999dev666999 Posts: 3,567New Users @ @ @ @ @
    edited July 2014
    @Raffaello‌

    Thanks for the detailed reply. When I first posted about Flappy Bird some months ago, I mentioned that it was a Meme, and mentioned the contest to see who could leave the longest and funniest review. This was stated on the web with various news stories. And he also got picked up by a couple of popular youTube reviewers...Pewdiepie and Lonniedos. Which can create the viral effects you mention.

    But still, somehow it doesn't pass the smell test with me. I strongly suspect he did something illegal, regardless of the viral youTube effect. The app was not visible at all for months, then suddenly it gets propelled to the top of the iTunes charts overnight. The Meme came AFTER that rise. The question is... how did he get it to rise so fast... even a viral climb naturally would take a bit longer. That makes it suspect. And everything else after that... reviews included.

    FWIW though, the IronPants maker, is claiming he did it the way you describe. He posted as such on this board. IronPants was a Flappy Bird clone that had the same rise, and huge number of weird/long reviews. So that would validate your theory, assuming he's not lying. ;)
  • RudyRudy Ottawa, CanadaPosts: 1,787Registered Users @ @ @ @
    dev666999 wrote: »
    FWIW though, the IronPants maker, is claiming he did it the way you describe. He posted as such on this board. IronPants was a Flappy Bird clone that had the same rise, and huge number of weird/long reviews. So that would validate your theory, assuming he's not lying. ;)
    But the buzz was already there with Flappy Bird. Flappy bird came out of nowhere
  • RudyRudy Ottawa, CanadaPosts: 1,787Registered Users @ @ @ @
    Raffaello wrote: »
    Again I ask you, where would this developer have thousands to pay for bots?
    Or do you really think this is something that can be bone (if possible at all) with just a mere 100$?
    This guy was not a company, and he was making really simple games, I really doubt he had any kind of money.
    If he really was loaded with money to spend on bots, why wouldnt him instead spend money on making good apps?

    Maybe he did have the money, maybe he created the bots himself (not that hard), or maybe someone offered to do it for "free" and collect a % of the profit after. Who knows
  • freelancer77freelancer77 the worldPosts: 101New Users @ @
    edited July 2014
    people started leaving these ridiculous long reviews of flappy bird, right at the time that apple began to weight longer reviews more heavily.

    he did use bots. he knows it, that's why he took it down. it was part of his plan.

    i think there were several devs with this plan. balloon in the rankings with bots, then take it down and ride the residual ad impressions. this strategy could be done many times over, shoot up the rankings then disappear. it would be very hard to chase them all down for apple, plus, since they're already gone, what would apple accomplish going after them?

    even if they canned the developer, hundreds of thousands of people would still have the binary on their phones. it would still be played every day and get ad impressions. getting into the top 10 even for a day with a free app would pay most people's bills for a couple of years.
  • savannasavanna Posts: 257New Users @ @
    even if they canned the developer, hundreds of thousands of people would still have the binary on their phones. it would still be played every day and get ad impressions. getting into the top 10 even for a day with a free app would pay most people's bills for a couple of years.

    Particularly in that part of the world. Its the way to do it… apple cant prevent payments if they come from independent ad networks either.

  • PikPokPikPok Posts: 370New Users @ @
    savanna wrote: »
    Particularly in that part of the world. Its the way to do it… apple cant prevent payments if they come from independent ad networks either.

    How?
    <div align="center"><a href="http://www.pikpok.com"; target="_blank">PikPok</a> - steal a moment! </div><br />
    Games: <a href="http://pikpok.com/games/supermamc/"; target="_blank">Super Monsters Ate My Condo</a> | <a href="http://pikpok.com/games/intothedead/"; target="_blank">Into the Dead</a> | <a href="http://pikpok.com/games/football/"; target="_blank">Flick Kick Football</a>
  • 258076067258076067 asiaPosts: 15New Users *
    Raffaello wrote: »
    PipPok, you seem to continue to insist that Flappy Bird had some kind of illegal tricks for his sucess etc, and again I say, you just don't know the whole story about it.

    Now you talk about his huge number of reviews, but did you know that once Flappy Bird got somehow visibility, there was a huge gag in two big forums (forums with millions of daily users), where people were trying to make the most comical Flappy Bird review?
    Those threads would get huge, with a very big number of people posting reviews on the store.

    And he did not have success on his other titles, besides people checking them out once Flappy Bird got huge, as you know, the app store does have a link that shows all apps from the developer.

    The idea that a poor guy from Vietnam would be able to cheat the app store is simply non-sense. To get the numbers necessary to get such exposure, in terms of starting downloads, reviews etc would require thousands of thousands dollars, do you really think this guy would have that kind of money?

    look at flappy bird's ranking chart, people notice this game because it suddenly jump into top 10, then the other stories showed up, without first jumping into top 10, the others won't even happen, look at all the indie games after flappy bird, they all jumped into top 10 in one day, and they said it is all luck, rofl ,, luck is really useful word when you want to hind some secrets . and once the app is in top 10, they dont need to really do anything because some people just downloads whatever apps in top 10, these people will keep the ranking high, and then if the app has some playability , if will stay in top 10...so the only secret we need to know is how to push apps into top 10 in one or two days.!!
  • vboviovbovio Posts: 431Registered Users @ @
    Interesting discussion, whether or not the game got to the top genuinely, those reviews and the game removal makes the whole thing suspicious..
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